Beer & Butterfly

Season 1 Retro: Filling the third seat at our table

April 28, 2021 Ian Kingstone & Jonathan (JP) Parnaby Season 1 Episode 10
Beer & Butterfly
Season 1 Retro: Filling the third seat at our table
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

The first season is done and Ian & JP relax in the comfy sofas of the Beer & Butterfly and reflect on the first seasons conversations by conducting their own retrospective.  The hosts catch up to talk around destroying your sons confidence with a short lockdown haircut, the beginning of hope now that spring is on it's way and there is a path out of lockdown restrictions and catching up on the latest TV / Films.  They then perform a retrospective to highlight:

  • What went well
  • What didn't go so well
  • What could be improved

A massive thank you to all of our listeners so far and engaging with us throughout season one.  We look forward to seeing you at the table in Season Two

  • 00:00 - Intro
  • 01:16 - What have we been up to?
  • 06:24 - Season overview
  • 10:11 - Started in person, ended up virtual
  • 12:25 - Retro overview
  • 12:38 - What went well
  • 18:55 - What didn't go so well
  • 22:51 - What can we do better?
  • 28:40 - Season Two?
  • 30:57 - Massive thank you listeners
  • 31:10 - When are we back
  • 31:30 - Last orders

Ian Kingstone  0:03  
So what you having then Jonathan, 

Jonathan Parnaby  0:05  
a pint please mate 

Ian Kingstone  0:06  
Two pints, please landlord. 

Jonathan Parnaby  0:08  
So Ian. Where's our audience sitting then 

Ian Kingstone  0:10  
there over there? sat at that table over there? 

Jonathan Parnaby  0:13  
Oh, yeah, I can see them. Okay, well, before we go over there, what we're going to tell them, 

Ian Kingstone  0:18  
We're just gonna tell him it's a relaxed environment where we can discuss, you know, all stuff around business transformation. 

Jonathan Parnaby  0:23  
Okay, cool. So who's actually over there who have we got?

Ian Kingstone  0:27  
there's some executives, some professionals, a few consultants. 

Jonathan Parnaby  0:33  
Cool, fantastic. Well, let's crack on lets get over there. 

Ian Kingstone  0:35  
Welcome to the Beer & Butterfly 

Jonathan Parnaby  0:37  
a podcast where we talk transformation.

Ian Kingstone  1:03  
I'm Ian Kingstone. 

Jonathan Parnaby  1:05  
And I'm Jonathan Parnaby. 

Ian Kingstone  1:06  
And we're your hosts. In today's episode is the retro episode really, we're gonna talk about what went well in the season. One didn't go so well. And what we're looking to do next season. So Jonathan, is what what do you been up to lately? 

Jonathan Parnaby  1:20  
We're back. Yeah, yeah, it's been a while actually since we recorded isn't it? It has we're still in lockdown mind. Which one?

Right which one? 

Ian Kingstone  1:30  
Which one do you want to be in?

Jonathan Parnaby  1:32  
One that I'm not in? To be honest, but yeah, lockdown three. Okay. And there.

We are getting no it's all good. But know what I've been up to and what I've been up to well lockdown haircuts.

Ian Kingstone  1:44  
So what do you or to someone else?

Jonathan Parnaby  1:48  
Can't you see me? I know the listeners can't see me. But you can obviously see a shaved head pretty much. But no..

Ian Kingstone  1:56  
It's alright did you do it yourselfl, 

Jonathan Parnaby  1:59  
No, that's why it's all right.

Yeah, so we did lockdown haircuts with the I say the kids, just one of them, my son. And he had a very specific requirements.  I said, Look, I'm no I'm no Barber, or hairdresser. So write down a list. Like he's very particular about where he wanted his fringe. And I was like, Look, I'm using clippers. So you've got two options. Right? You got you got eight options, because they're the eight grades that come in the

we settle on like number two for back and sides and number eight, sorry, no, number five, on top. And then when he looked in the mirror afterwards, after which I did a good job, actually. But he looked in the mirror and he just cried. That's my fringe off

Ian Kingstone  2:46  
It was transformational. 

Jonathan Parnaby  2:48  
No I've sold it to him now. He's fine. He's happy. He was just a bit worried about his mates. Taking them mick out of school but but now he's got he's got through it. He's got over it. And then Chelle did mine.

And just I let him watch so he could take the mick out of me. It was all good. We did like that haircuts, we have actually given blood today as well. That's the first time I've ever done that. Which was really good actually recommend it to anyone. It was quite a nice feeling.

Ian Kingstone  3:17  
You're not going to become a vampire are you, like the feeling of blood

Jonathan Parnaby  3:21  
No to go and do something really positive. 

Ian Kingstone  3:24  
All right.

Jonathan Parnaby  3:25  
Yeah, hopefully. Hopefully. The bloods okay.

But yeah, no, it's been good to do that. And, and then yeah, TV wise, what we're doing watching Wandavision in Disney+ and that's been fantastic. I'd recommend that if you haven't watched it

Ian Kingstone  3:43  
I'll give it go then

Jonathan Parnaby  3:45  
It's weird. It's, it's, you know, a callback to the sitcoms of like the 50 60 70s and stylish very well done. And it's probably the most unpredictable show that I've watched ever. I can't even tell you where it's going half the time. But I love it. And so that's been really good. How about yourself?

Ian Kingstone  4:04  
Cool what I've been doing not much really working lots from home obviously.

To got out my bike Actually, I did two to 20k's this weekend just on the bike. So nothing major but all good fun and quite enjoyed it because it was quite nice weekend.

Jonathan Parnaby  4:23  
We had the weather

Ian Kingstone  4:25  
Yeah, exactly. So just just just locally, but just a better road bear track kind of thing that you know, got a bike for Christmas and New one. So got us a bit and all that kind of stuff.

Just just around the house DIY stuff. Haven't actually watched anything. I don't think I've watched any new film that I could really write home about or talk about. So. That's a shame but but uh, yeah, no, I can't think of anything that I've watched anything. No, listen. No, no. I mean, I've listened to quite a bit of music actually lately. It got back into my guitar playing a little bit.

And, yeah, or sold an AMP and things like that on eBay to buy another bit of software that I can do effects with and stuff. So usual kind of stuff. But now I can't say anything that exciting. My car's come up for service, which is quite interesting because I haven't driven it much in the year. And I think, Well, you know, I'm paying for that yearly service thing rather than actually

having having used it all there you go is just one of those things. Yeah, nothing to write home about, I'm afraid.

Jonathan Parnaby  5:37  
Just a standard time doing standard things. keeping yourself mentally active by selling amps on eBay. 

Ian Kingstone  5:45  
Yeah. And it was I suppose the biggest thing for me was a bit of sunshine this weekend, some signs of spring, 

Jonathan Parnaby  5:51  
which is a shift, wasn't it? That's what I felt. I felt a shift in me. Going. Yes, hope. We've got dates. We've got you know, dates in the diary of when things hopefully will happen. We've got the sun coming out. I just felt nice. And I was I'd stay out there with a dog. On Saturday mornings, I right. Come on mate.

And we did a nice five five mile walk which he likes, like a big loop around our village. But yeah, that's really good, isn't it? I'm hoping, hoping to get a few more weekends like that. Because that Yeah, that'd be good. Anyway, anyway, let's talk about the retro this kind of finale

Ian Kingstone  6:29  
Season overview, How's it gone? 

Jonathan Parnaby  6:32  
We've got to the end of season one, mate. Like that's mad just me even saying that. I can't even like, we talked about a lot. And we've covered a lot. And we've actually seen 

Ian Kingstone  6:44  
a lot of times gone by as well.

Jonathan Parnaby  6:47  
It's very true, 

Ian Kingstone  6:49  
as long But hey, we've been on a learning curve. 

Jonathan Parnaby  6:51  
Yeah, we've not done this before, right? This is completely new for us. We've hit every I wouldn't say every roadblock but the hard way.

Ian Kingstone  7:01  
Shame we are not recording it in the pub,

Jonathan Parnaby  7:02  
No, no, that that is true. But maybe the under season two, we can we can get in the pub under, which would be quite nice to get a bit of ambience. 

That'd be great. Started in the pub so we should be ending it there.

But now, let's remind ourselves why we're doing this. You know, because I think that's quite important. We got to the end of the first season. But let's just reflect why why are we doing this? Well, kind of in my mind.

We just kind of informalising business transformation, we want to bring that pub talk, and what we do work together in a way that's accessible for for different people in as you say in our intros whoever, your executives, consultants, professionals, whoever, whoever's got an interest in this kind of topic. This is kind of for you. And it's, we want to get the engagement on this podcast so that it becomes this platform. It's a platform for anybody who wants to discuss transformation. And that's really why I'm doing it like That's why

Ian Kingstone  8:06  
 I think so as well. I mean, we haven't necessarily been able to do much of that because of the lockdown. Although I think we've thought of ways around that now. But we probably wouldn't have earlier on. And yeah, it's that pull up a chair, in the pub let's talk about transformation type thing I'm still there with that hasn't changed for me. The rationale why we're doing this was around you, and I take our conversations, and that we have with other people, and put them out there for other people to listen to if they want to. Yeah, and if they can learn something from it, and if they can contribute to it even better. 

Jonathan Parnaby  8:43  
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I'm kind of reminded myself back to when we launched this. And actually, on our first day, we had somebody who came dropped us an email, and i'll plud the email now because let's let's do it. But if anyone wants to get engaged, engage with us or speak to us it's and essentially, that goes to myself and Ian and we and we make an effort to respond to anyone who kind of sends them.

Ian Kingstone  9:13  
Jonathan usually gets there quicker than me, but I

Jonathan Parnaby  9:21  
Its just a bit delayed.  But no, it's it's important to kind of highlight that and I just I thought that was just a really great feeling night. Yes. Day one. We've had somebody just drop us a line thought how was fantastic was that. 

Ian Kingstone  9:32  
Yeah, that's a result in itself, to be honest with you. That is brilliant. That's what we wanted just some engagement to to allow us to kind of talk to other people about transformation that would have never talked to if we hadn't done this. 

Jonathan Parnaby  9:43  
Yeah, and I think she was from France. Yeah, which blows my mind like we released this and, and yeah, we're having a conversation about, you know, transformation programmes with somebody in France about brilliant, this just opening some real doors towards different places.

But now I think I think it's worth probably just highlighting what the first season was like, before we kind of get into the nitty gritty but you know, obviously started. I've started in the pub, talking about the podcast. Yeah.

And then we started to record in person and obviously socially distanced because the rules at the time and we obviously had to navigate through many lockdowns, restrictions, tiered systems to get it working. So we started in person and ended up being virtual as we're doing today. So yeah, we've had a lot to kind of navigate. 

Ian Kingstone  10:37  
Yeah, no and learn learn those recording things. And when we get into that in a bit, but But um,

yeah, I've learned loads on the technology side, nevermind that but also the the other side of it just just, and I think I've learned a lot about, for me, I've learned a lot about what kind of works works well.

In just conversation, and how you get the right things out of that kind of conversation. I think so. So I but I've really enjoyed it. And I've got to say it's been quite personal note, it's been quite good just to have a kind of a trying to get it done type shedule have a conversation and continue. If we weren't recording the podcast, would we have continued our conversation? So these lockdowns? Probably not? Maybe we would probably not as often is because it would all resolve around the pub. 

but I do think, you know, from that perspective, so So yeah, it's been great. I've really enjoyed it. 

Jonathan Parnaby  11:35  
Yeah, no, likewise, it's, it's great to do this with yourself, and actually have a kind of partner in crime to do this, because I can't imagine me sitting on my own doing this. I just can't it I don't know, for me, it doesn't feel as natural I we can just have a chat, or 

Ian Kingstone  11:51  
that conversation. That's what it is. At the end of the day, it's sharing thoughts, sharing ideas, learning experiences, and that's why, you know, it's engaging with other people as well, because that will offer new experiences new thoughts, and expand on that. So you know, I think everybody's clear, we want to engage. So as much as we can, and however we can, so we'll work our way through that. Okay. 

Jonathan Parnaby  12:14  
So yeah, let's get on with it. This, this, you know, will be pretty rapid, or we don't want to kind of spend too long. But we just wanted to share kind of our experiences and what we feel about our first season. So basically, our retrospective, our process is going to be very similar to anyone who's been through a retro before. We're going to talk about what my well, we're going to talk about what didn't go so well, and what we want to improve. 

So let's start in what went well, what do you want to kind of just throw into the melting pot? 

Ian Kingstone  12:43  
I think to start with the structure, we'd sat down and said, what do we want to do this season on? And we sat down and thought about a structured way of doing that we decided, once we got into it, we decided about change management. And we and we kind of structured the episodes. You know, it was a subject changed organisational change management was a subject that we're both passionate about. So I think I think that allowed us to get on with it quite easily. I think if we'd if we hadn't had that structure, I think I'm going to contradict myself later on know it. But I think that did help us get going. Personally, I 

Jonathan Parnaby  13:25  
like ab MVP wasn't that yeah, 

Ian Kingstone  13:28  
it was exactly like an MVP. And, and I think when we were doing it, I was thinking, Oh, this is a bit not sure about this kind of too structured. And then and then

which we'll come to but but no, I think once we got going, I was really pleased that we had that it made it a little bit, especially with having those lock downs and those different things going we knew when we're getting together, we're talking around this topic, or we're talking around that topic. So not you know, it's not like rehearsed, but it was at least you know what you're gonna go and talk about. 

Jonathan Parnaby  13:58  
Yeah, now that's fair. That's fair. Okay, let's keep this rapid then. So I think for me, I think what what went well, was actually, you know, allowing us to be creative. And I don't get well I get to be creative in what I do in jobs. But it's always created with constraint, because it's always that deliver a specific thing, but actually doing this podcast has been brilliant. I mean, even just doing by the intro, and the teaser trailer and things like that, where it could just be probably a bit silly in places and just allow us to kind of be Yeah, completely creative. This experience has been awesome. And I've really enjoyed that. 

Ian Kingstone  14:38  
Yeah, I've enjoyed that as well. And yeah, I mean, we talked about that with the the end the beginnings and things and we've done a few versions of that.

As I've had to edit it all, but

to be honest with you, every time I've been doing

I have really enjoyed it. So you know, it's it's, it's been fun. Yeah, no, I like that. That's, that's that's all good.

I think I think the other thing from our you know, what went well, and

our conversations, you know, you forget your recording, you just talk and that side of things, I think that's gone? Well, I think blending of our conversations gone. Well, I was a bit kind of would be you there may be there me kind of talking, whereas we've not, you know, some episodes I've babbled on about stuff and some episodes you have.

And, and, and I don't feel like it's, I feel that, you know, the conversations flowed rather than we've tried to share the burden of it at any particular time. It's it, I think that's gone really well as well.

Jonathan Parnaby  15:50  
Yeah, I don't see where we're where people with big egos, if that makes sense. I think that helps. Like we, you know, it's not like we're going Ian i've not had enough time on that episode. And we need to rejigg your conversation accordingly. We don't ever have those conversations, we just chat. And if it so happens 80% of the conversation there. so be it. 

Ian Kingstone  16:12  
That's what I was gonna bring that up in the not well, and so well, but anyway, no.

No, and and that kind of leads on to my next point, I guess.

There's been no pressure. I've had no pressure from you, Jonathan on on getting things done at certain time, or editing things at certain time. And i know, we've had a few things happen along the way where, you know, probably could have got things edited a bit quicker, but for various reasons, they haven't happened. And we've ended up releasing some of these things a lot, you know, a long time after when we recorded them. But but there's been no pressure to do there's no kind of pressure to when things need to be released and things like that. And to me, that's been fine, because it's not felt like a burden at all. enjoyed it. 

Jonathan Parnaby  16:58  
Good. Okay. Well, my last point then, on what went well, is, I think we've not tried to timebox the conversation. And some of you might be thinking, yeah, we know, we've listened to hours, hours. But like, even things like the intro, and sorry, not the intro that the you know, when we're catching on, we're checking in what you've been up to those kinds of things that those bits are important to me, actually. And I kind of rank those those discussions are of equal importance, because for me, it's it's good to kind of bring some of them informality into it. Because as I said, at the beginning, that's what we want. We're in a pub. Okay. Okay. You could argue the pub doesn't exist. There's in my mind, that's where we are most of the time.

No, I think it's an important that we don't try and constrain it. And, you know, we were quite good on the editing front, we put chapter markers in so people don't want to, you know, listen to us rambling on about Netflix, fine, just skip past it. But, but we do it. Because, you know, we're people, and we're humans. And I'm actually going through what we're going through, I think it's an important part actually, for me. 

Ian Kingstone  18:07  
So yeah, I agree. I mean, I've enjoyed that conversation anyway. And we probably wouldn't have had it if we weren't on these things. So that's good. And I've learned about few movies that I needed to watch and stuff like that. So that's good shared knowledge, Jonathan, good shared knowledge and power of what we would normally share in that environment. So yeah, I agree. I like that not timeboxing. And not being time boxed. Like we said earlier on, on either one of us talking some or not talking some It takes as long as it takes and

Jonathan Parnaby  18:40  
and we make no apologies. And I hope you'll join us for the ride because we enjoy you being or just skip us

Ian Kingstone  18:49  
just get to the base, you want to listen. 

Jonathan Parnaby  18:51  
Yeah, we give you the options, so it's fine. Okay.

So what? What didn't go so well, that didn't go so well?

Well, I think, you know, being completely open it's COVID. And pandemics, I think we the way we did season one, you know, we wouldn't do it in the same way would we Let's face it, we wouldn't record most of it, edit most of it in a release all of it.

In future we need to get into a cadence and yeah, and that's, that's a rhythm thing. And it's just more synchronisation, I think, between me and you, and, you know, trying to live life for where we are. 

Ian Kingstone  19:33  
Well, yeah, but it's also a learning curve. I mean, I've got to say, I totally agree with you that didn't go so well. I think you know, the first few ones we did I mean, I was I was not really particularly pleased with their my own voice and you can't try and edit out every little noise and, and things and this will probably show as you've got it listen to episodes if you've listened from once at the beginning to now you'll probably find that the editing is a lot worse later on. And it's not laziness. It's just

Cuz I'm prepared to put up with more in that sense. Yeah, although they weren't here, I think it was episode five or whatever, all the sniffles that I've cut out because they're cut out.

You'll probably hear a few sniffles but there they go. And yeah, I think, for me, certainly. Yeah. But now we've done enough of them. I think editing is a lot easier. I think moving things forward in more routines a lot easier because we've been there and done that. So I think I think it's kind of like didn't go so well. I agree. But we'll probably have to go through that pain at some point. 

Jonathan Parnaby  20:37  
Yeah, we've learned I mean, anyway, we're going to learn to do it. You know, like, like, we make no we bare no bones about this. We're, we're, we're noobs at podcasting. And again, you probably go in Yeah, we know.

But that's, that's fine. And we're learning and, but it is part of the experience for me is to learn through doing and trying and test learn, isn't it testing. 

Ian Kingstone  21:01  
And the freak mic issues are just the weirdest thing on the planet

So you plug the same mic in the same computer in the same workspace it, you know, and it would hum or make all these noises and all these things, and then you do it another time and it's perfect. Absolutely perfect. And it's like, what is that all about? 

Jonathan Parnaby  21:26  
Mad Mad in it? But I think the biggest thing for me, I think what you know what I say what the go so well, but I don't think we planned to do it anyway. was we talk a lot about the third seat at the table. And if we're in season one, we had no guests. Yeah. And that was always something I think I was conscious of. And that's because of the way we recorded the episodes. A lot up front So we knew we're not gonna have any guests, because we've already done most of the work before we lost. So

Yeah, that's just something that's on my mind. Something we should definitely rectify.

Ian Kingstone  22:00  
Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. The third seat at the table. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Then I suppose the other thing, the only thing I can think of from what I guess well, is we have had a few background noises. And we

Jonathan Parnaby  22:13  
everything from my wife's hair dryer. 

Ian Kingstone  22:15  
Yes. Oh, yeah. That just all sorts beeping lorries? You name it. Since we, we kind of went online and the fridge. 

Yeah, even when we were in it, you know, we're always recording my house. Like the fridge would just kick in it's like Yeah. Notoriously kick in in the middle of recording this. Because whirring away. And your thinking oh God, or what was it? Someone was someone

Chainsawing something

No idea, thanks for that

Jonathan Parnaby  22:47  
You can't plan everything. Can you? 

Ian Kingstone  22:49  
No, no. Okay, so moving along. What can we do better then?

Jonathan Parnaby  22:55  
Yeah, I think I said it. No. guests. We want guests? Yeah. And, you know, I don't think, you know, when I say guests, I literally open this out to anybody who really wants to come on the show and discuss that with us and maybe enough to say in that way, I get quite a lot of invitations and we can't help and get everybody on. But you know, I've already spoken to a few people who would definitely be interested in joining us for a chat. And I just think that's awesome. So I think we want to get guests on, we want to give them that platform to discuss those topics with us. So yeah, that's something I definitely think we'll 

Ian Kingstone  23:35  
we're not paying him there. Right? Definitely not, it's free. They can have some peanuts from the bar.

Jonathan Parnaby  23:42  
Only if they're subsidised. Alright, it's fine.

Ian Kingstone  23:47  
Yeah, no, I mean, I think that is right. I mean, if we can open up more conversations, bring in some of those things. I've enjoyed the questions that we've had so far, and things like that. So I think I think that kind of engagement will be brilliant. And having more than yours, or my thoughts around some of the things will be will be even even better, you know, so the more knowledge and sharing and things we can do through this medium is the better as far as I'm concerned. So, so that that's cool. What else? What else can we do better?

Jonathan Parnaby  24:20  
Yeah, I think you saw you mentioned, maybe you want to take this because he kind of said you're going to contradict yourself, but we picked a very structured subject for our season theme, which is locked as in that subject. So we've kind of explored change management and every rock and and depth of it. We've kind of discussed and I've actually enjoyed I think has been good as you know, it's a passion of mine, and I know it's of yours. But what it has done for future seasons is probably highlight that maybe we don't want to pick a topic in that way that constrains us, does that make sense? 

Ian Kingstone  24:56  
Yeah, no, it does a I don't want it to feel like, You know that the next one, you're going to hear a bit more about the next thing and a bit more about it that might happen naturally. And that's okay. The other thing that for me, which is exactly what you're saying, really, and then why I said I might contradict myself is that I've had things going on, in transformation stuff I'm working on, which would have liked to brough to the podcast, but because we're talking about specific subject just didn't feel relevant or right. Whereas, you know, I'd like to be a little bit more....loose jam.

I would like to be Yeah, we might have a theme we're going to talk about in a particular episode, that that's something but it's not necessarily you know, we might decide one week that actually that theme we leave for another time, because we've got something else we want to talk about today or, or that we blend, you know, change management or value management or in Project programme management or something else. Just something pure transformation, whatever. 

That, you know, we might want to mix several things through one episode that is relevant that time that we want to talk about, especially if we've got a third seat at the table around that episode, because it might be something specific to that. That guest we have no idea about. 

Jonathan Parnaby  26:15  
Yeah, no. Absolutely. Absolutely on again, weirdly, not weirdly, funnily, I was talking to somebody about procurement as a topic, and I just thought, Yeah, I don't know loads about the procurement, I, you know, I kind of get involved in it. But actually, I can see synergies with business transformation. Yeah, how we procure services and solutions, in the right way, to set ourselves for success. I thought what a great conversation that would be. Because actually, I've learned something from that person that 

Ian Kingstone  26:45  
Yeah, I'd love to get that conversation, because 

Jonathan Parnaby  26:47  
and I'm sure they will from from our perspective. So I think that kind of having somebody who's not your traditional project manager or programme manager, coming on, but actually having those other lenses for Yeah, fantastic. 

Ian Kingstone  27:00  
Bring bring it in. Because Yeah, I'm already I want to talk about that now. Yeah.

How do we kind of orchestrate transformation across different, you know, groups of companies and things? Do you mean that kind of stuff market kind of transformation? Cool.


What else could we do better?

editing, I suppose as the other one can't leave it out. It's got to be done. We put we just need to get faster and share the editing a bit, I think and I think get get better at that. Because I want to get I want to get into the routine of of recording, editing, getting it out recording, editing, getting it out rather than like you say, I've sat on quite a few episodes for quite a while. just purely because of timing, and certainly other. 

Jonathan Parnaby  27:50  
Yeah, no, I think we kind of wraps it up. But I didn't want to spend loads and loads of time going through them. I hope that gives everybody who's listening kind of a little insight into the window of Ian and myself on the joys and tribulations of of podcasting from a newbie perspective. And, yeah,

it's been it's been brilliant. And I've loved season one, I love to actually just dig in, you know, deep on some of those conversations and engagement we've had along the way has been been fantastic. So massive thank you to every one of our listeners who you know, as ever downloaded the Beer and Butterfly and kind of come along this journey with us. We definitely thank you from the bottom our hearts because it's been amazing 

Ian Kingstone  28:33  
and stuck with us this long already.

Jonathan Parnaby  28:36  
Yeah, and we continue, like, so that kind of segues nicely into so in season two, we're going to do with season two. 

Ian Kingstone  28:44  

Jonathan Parnaby  28:44  
And if so, what what do you want it to look like?

Ian Kingstone  28:50  
Well, I definitely think we're gonna do season two.

We just start talking about stuff I want to talk about. So so you know.

Yeah, you better let me know if you don't want to do season two. But but but

yeah, definitely. I think it'll look a little bit more.

Obviously, we still have themes, like we talked about, but my my view would be is Yes, a little bit more loose jam.

We definitely want to get some guests and some third seats going even if we can't necessarily get them through a whole kind of episode or whatever. We just have a conversation with someone that we can you know, or even if we bring in conversations we've had someone into with someone into our episodes, although I really would like to get other people onto the onto the calls if you want and, and get that stuff talked about. So yeah, no, I'm really excited about it.

Yeah, I can't wait. 

Jonathan Parnaby  29:44  
Yeah, I think I think for me the season thing.

It shouldn't be ambiguous, but it should be they should allow flexibility. So So I think we're going to think of something that's gonna we kind of link things to, but not be constrained by it.

So watch this space on that one, that that just means I hadn't thought of it yet. And we were yet to decide. But But yeah, we were not going to be going deep dive in value management next time. And then season three will be deep dive in project management and the deep dive and programme management. I don't think that's kind of where we want to take it. 

We just wantto Yeah, like like you saying, We just want that flexibility to do what we want to do to talk to who we want to talk to. And actually, you know, even if you're a guest, and you want to come on, but you don't have a topic to bring, that's fine. Just come and join in. Let's talk about your experiences. Or if you're a guest that wants to come on and talk about a topic. That's cool, too, you know, yeah. 

Ian Kingstone  30:39  
Or you want to record a question and send us the question recorded. 

Yeah. Get your voice on the voice on the podcast, and we'll respond to you recorded. Yeah. 

Jonathan Parnaby  30:49  
Love it. 

Ian Kingstone  30:49  
That kind of thing. Just let us know

Jonathan Parnaby  30:52  
Cool. So I think that kind of wraps it up, right. We want to keep this short and sweet. And but yeah, big. Thank you again, everybody. And we shall see you in the new season. Yeah, thank you very much. Cheers, guys, 


Ian Kingstone  31:11  
So thank you, again, for listening to our podcast. And just so you know, there's going to be a little bit of a break between season one and season two. So we'll come back with season two, with an opener in season two and let you know what's happening, but there'll be a little little break between the two. So look forward to catching up with you in season two.

Jonathan Parnaby  31:33  
It's last orders at the bar. So thank you for listening to the Beer and Butterfly. As always, we want to encourage participation.

Ian Kingstone  31:40  
Yeah, so you can contact us at the website So that's There you'll find show notes on anything we've talked about in today's show or any links to anything we've discussed. And also you can leave comments, get engaged or get involved through the website. So that's Yeah, and we look forward to seeing you at the table next time.

What have we been up to?
Season overview
Started in person, ended up virtual
Retro overview
What went well?
What didn't go so well?
What can we do better?
Season Two?
Massive thank you listeners
When are we back?
Last orders